........joe windsurfer BLOG........: Heavyweights and Windsurfing

Heavyweights and Windsurfing

It seems anything over about 75 kilos (ONLY 165 lbs!!) is considered a heavyweight in the windsurfing world. One would think this would make it easier for women since they are typically under this weight, but not even that apparently !!
(Catapulting Aaron commented average American male windsurfer is more like 80 kilos or 176 pounds.)

At just under 100 kilos, what does that make me ?? The doctor says my weight is okay and i could stand to lose a few pounds, butt i am no longer in the so called obese category as per BMI. When i call myself "average joe windsurfer", it is in terms of skills and experience and NOT in terms of weight. Perhaps i should call myself average BIG joe windsurfer ?? :-) {why does this blog not post smiling faces ?? :-)} need to insert smiley gif ==>

I started this post due to a long time frustration and this entry on the MauiSails forum: ~~http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3213~~

forum NO longer exists since 2016

This gentleman,Mike, windsurfed many years ago and wishes to get back into the sport on a lake environment. As a heavyweight it was recommended he purchase a Fanatic Viper 85 which is 220 liters and obviously 85 cm wide with a very small learner sail 6.0. Personally feel this is "putz about" equipment and the gentleman will outgrow it extremely quickly. Also, around 2006 Fanatic was suggesting more narrow boards - around 80 cm. I posted an entry on the Fanatic forum to see what they have to say about the width factor on the Viper ...
"back in about 2006 Fanatic seemed to be going away from very wide boards and staying under 80 cm. There is an 85 cm wide Viper available now. On the MauiSails forum a gentleman was asking about this board. He weighs about 250 lbs and wishes to sail on small to large lakes. My question is whether he would be better off with an 80 cm board which can glide through holes and plane up great in bigger winds. "
This was the answer from Fanatic forum:
"Hi Joe,

I guess that Viper 85 has been in the line since about 2006, actually mainly due to US market at first, although nowdays most of our schools share 80/85 sizes equally. For 250lbs, he might be better off on the 85, the extra width and volume does not hurt, especially for fresh water sailing. Depends a bit on the winds obviously, if it´s constantly windy, the 80 might work, but doubt it is on smaller lakes.

Good sailing,

Craig "
So, it depends on whether it will be more on the small lake or larger lake with bigger, steadier winds - and this makes good sense.

Here's the Fanatic sales pitch on youtube:

>

Mike has everything going against him - and that is regarding one of the greatest water sports around %^&* --- Not many longboards offered (or too technical and $$$), he is NOT an average weight person as per equipment setups and he is going on a lake.

Having windsurfed on a small lake of one mile length and less width for many years , a longboard is still the obvious choice. This issue today is - which one is the best for these lakes for not too much money ?? And once again - best for heavyweights of 100 + kilos... What was once a standard seems to be harder n harder to get. Then again, Starboard seems to be adding a centre-board to their larger GOs.

The other side of the coin is that the fastest windsurfers in the world are over 100 kilos and often tall as well. Antoine Albeau, Bjorn Dunkerbeck and Finian Maynard are some of the world's fastest and yet not small men. Dave White is a also a big man and known for incredible speeds and making it look effortless. Dave is a special windsurfer in that he does things with equipment that it was never intended to do - more on that later.

Antoine Albeau on Speed Channel

The sail seems to be a simpler "issue". I suggested a no-cam fully battened MS Pursuit 7.0 sail. This sail for a bigger fellow will get him started, not be too heavy and can be used in the future as a quite decent sail. Would have preferred an 8.5, but need to know skill potential first. More on that from Tinho later ...

If it was for a shortboard and a heavyweight returning back to windsurfing, I think the choice would be a little easier. A small reminder: I speak about flat water blasting with some chop. Those doing bump n jump and/or wave are on a different scale as far as I am concerned. So, a heavyweight over 100 kilos getting back into windsurfing on a shortboard... One could use a 135 liter board to be able to uphaul, especially a wide one, but that could be frustrating... Suggest a 160 liter shortboard with about 80 cm of width. Also, personally feel longer is better for coasting through lulls. AND would stick to the suggestion of a 7-oh sail to start. Later get that 8.5 and rip. My 230 lb buddy just purchased his second board - a Fanatic Hawk 135 - after his BIC Techno 2 160. Let's see how that goes - will he get rid of the 160 is the question !! He never went for the 10-oh - feeling it was just too big. He also wants to go to 8-oh when he replaces the 8.5. My 8.5 is practically my favourite setup for the BIC Dufour and the AHD FF !!
Follow-up: Now i am REALLY surprised. After just one trial run with the Fanatic Hawk 135 in overpowering conditions on a Retro 6-oh, Helmut has put his BIC Techno II 160 up for sale. This is against both my and Bruno of 2-rad's recommendation/suggestion. Not so sure the 135 will be a good schlogger. Once again, time will tell ...
Follow-up2: Attempts to run the 8.5 in 15 knot winds and wind shadows proved difficult. Almost impossible to uphaul. We'll see...
Follow-up3: Helmut beach started the Hawk 135 , planed, got in the foot-straps and hit his brand new Hawk with the mast :-(
Bruno of 2-rad ,who repaired the board for 20 bucks , says he can plane on his RRD 90 liter board using a 6.2 in 14 knots - and he is 200 lbs !!! For me that's my 160 liter board using my 10-oh !! And Helmut confirmed that 16 knots is perfect for the 8.5 So, how does Bruno do it ???
Followup4: Helmut sold his 2006 BIC Techno II 160 liter board with two(2) fins for $700. Now he is definitely limited to 16 + knot winds and must improve water starts, and jibes. Also feels like his board retained value more than my 2006 AHD FF 160. The AHD is more sensitive, more expensive and rated as a "better board". I probably will never sell it cuz it is my go-to board in 12 + knots !!!

Okay, so, which longboard should a heavyweight use on a lake? GO, Serenity, KONA, Viper, AHD ZEN or ??? Width was discussed with the fanatic forum question earlier in this post... Seems like 80 to 90 cm is a good width for starting back.

Here is a pic of the AHD ZEN: {hey - another pic that disappeared - need to copy them rather than link them ^&*( - will do so now !!!!}

When I purchased my 2006 AHD FastForward/FF 160 in 2007, the original intent was to upgrade the BIC Dufour Wing longboard. On the short list were the Fanatic Viper and the AHD ZEN since both would be supplied by local windsurf shops. I had narrowed it down to the ZEN 170 since i would also use it on the St-Lawrence with hopes of going in bigger winds. Thus, I was NOT going for the 200+ liter boards. I will post this question to both AHD and Tinho Dornellas of Calema Sports in Florida - since he was the designer of this board ... Bruno André replied and seemed to feel the 80 cm board would be fine - he did not comment on volume. Tinho replied saying he uses both the Viper 80 and 85 for teaching. He agrees with Craig of Fanatic in that an 80 cm Viper is good for a heavyweight with some skills. Tinho also pointed out the fin that comes with the board is NOT adequate. This is an often overlooked detail - i did it here %^&*( Tinho also went so far as to suggest a larger performance sail ie possibility of cambers... The most i suggested was an 8.5 and had not even considered cambers since Mike was getting back in the sport and some people do not like the extra "hassle" of cambers. If it is an issue, it is NOT in terms of rigging, nor de-rigging. The worst problem i have encountered is failure of cams to rotate in light winds or when the sail is new and not hauled enough.. Oh yeah, Tinho mentioned the option of a SUP that can handle a sail as well...

Many of the Starboard/SB boards that are for "beginners" are 85 cm wide, but are much less in volume - around 170 liters. Boards of this genre and longboards today all have fully retractable centreboards. With a little bigger back fin they can act like a shortboard !! Then there are the new concepts like the KONA where the surface area on the water changes as one speeds up !!! The Serenity is a special animal that is not for all and seems to require some windsurf skills already. It reminds me of the sculls, but with a sail. There is always the SUP option with a sail as well now.I will put a post on the SB forum to see what Roger Jackson says for Starboard longboards to start back with as a heavyweight.

Roger has responded and suggested the SB Phantom 320 as a first choice, the RIO L as second and he reluctantly suggested the GO windsurfer as third. The Phantom is more like the traditional longboard. My only question is: where does one get one in the NE USA and how much ?? Saw some decent videos on this board !!!

What about Exocet KONA ONE 220 and Tabou Windstyler 220?? The Kona Link is 220 liters, 80 cm wide and costs about $1200 at windspirit.com. The Tabou Windstyler is 220 liters also, but only 72 cm wide. This is okay for a longboard, but is a choice one has to make ...Windsurfing-direct.com does not seem to have em - they have the slightly smaller Rider. Let me write Matt Pritchard... Matt is already in contact with Mike = excellent !! Jerry of the Toronto Windsurf club strongly suggests the KONA as a "modern" longboard. It seems there are more options that I originally had thought !! This is good news...

Here is a video of Tinho Dornella's custom board Z2 - made for heavyweights. Tinho was also the designer of the infamous AHD ZEN - another great starter board...

I had promised more on Dave White aka Whitey. Here is an article about a big windsurfer, who apparently now spends more time doing photography !!
http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/HavingItLarge.pdf

This is much BETTER than American Idol - which board will win ?? Scotty won AI, butt which board will win this race ??

Mike had said he would let us know the outcome of his hunt for the return to windsurfing. Let us wish him lots of luck !! At last "discussion" he seemed to be tending towards the SB Phantom - since he will be on a small lake as well..
----------------------
210 pound/95 kilo fellow considering a BIC Techno II 160 liter board https://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17969&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

some more discussion on this heavyweight subject here as well: http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22491

and again in SEPT 2011

http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23272

In summer 2013 i took a fellow who said he was 220 pounds out for his first windsurf session. The smallest sail i had was a Hot Sails Maui 6.3 and i think that was appropriate. The board was another story. We started with my Bic Techno Formula which is 170 liters, but very wide with 94 cm. Steve had a difficult time with that and so we also tried my Fanatic Ultra CAT longboard. It has about 210 liters volume, but is much narrower. Steve was able to uphaul both, but had trouble placing the sail to get going and kept falling in. Beachstarting did not seem to be an option either. I feel the Free Formula was a good choice in terms of width stability that lacked a little flotation. If the board was like some of today's softskin boards with lots of volume, he would have been better off. For me , however, i will NOT be purchasing a 200 liter 100 cm wide board just for teaching. Once one gets over the initial hurdles, one can go to the next board quickly. And so, for me, people will just take a little longer at the beginning. The other fellow, Joe, was 150 pounds and was already trying tacking that day. Joe preferred the longboard for glide. Yes, the longboard goes better in lighter winds. Good catch Joe.

In 2015 Tinho Dornellas of Calema WaterSports helped KONA develop a new board called the HULA -

Boardsize: 294 cm x 87.6 cm wide x14.8 cm thick 264 L volume or 9’7″ X 34.5 “x5.8” Th 264 L volume

With that volume, length and width, it is an ideal board for heavyweights to get out there and learn. However, it is NOT just for learning, but also an early planing weapon !!

Here is Tinho's video selling the board ...

Kona Hula. from Kona Windsurfing on Vimeo.

Actually think his Z2 is the better option for heavyweights

2016: Cannot believe there is nothing from Peter Hart here !!!
Well, I was just made aware of this one:
http://www.windsurf.co.uk/peter-hart-big-men-small-problems/

It is now early 2017 and I am looking about - still have the heavyweight question always in the back of my mind ...

On the Auzzie seabreeze forum they have been chatting about harnesses for the heavyweights and I also came across an older post about board volumes n widths for heavyweights:
http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Board-VolumeWidths-for-heavyweight-windsurfer/

what i found interesting was a number of discussions:

1) they seemed to prefer a board length somewhere around 234-240 cm
2) most of them were riding 120-135 liter boards - regularily
3) many of them have ridden boards with the same number of liters as their weight in kilos !!

What is working for me at the moment ??
1) <20 kph ~ 10 knots - Mistral Equipe II XR carbon longboard + HSM SpeedFreak 8.5
              I have used a Maui Sails TR-4 10 m² sail as well
2) 20+ kph JP SLW92 wide freeride with the TR-4 10 meter sail + 66 cm fin
3) 20-40 kph JP SLW92 with HSM SPF 8.5 or MS TR-6 8.4 + 56 cm fin
              now am trying an AHD SL2 132liter/80cm slalom board
4) 30-50 kph getting used to the AHD with 7 meter sails - am finding board short at 133 cm
   it actually handles chop better than my AHD FF 160liter/79cm board did
5) 40-60 kph when on-shore practice with Fanatic BEE LTD 124/63 and HSM Fire 6.3
6) more wind than that ? like to go see what the hotdogs can do !!
in 25+ knot winds have seen French slalom racer FRA-1100 go out with SB iSonic
                117W and Maui Sails TR-XI 8.4 !!! "bien joe, it iz only 25 knots !!!"

30 comments:

Catapulting Aaron31 May 2011 at 12:07
Hey Average Joe!

I really enjoyed this article. I weigh about 77 kilos and consider myself to be slightly lightweight. In the US and Europe about 80 kilos would be average in my mind. In other parts of the world, that's not the case.

I used to live in Florida and Virginia and my main boards were in the 130L range because of the relative lightness of the wind. Now I live in San Francisco, and my average size board would be around 90L. The bigger guys I know who are in the 100 kilo range ride a 120 or so as their small board and a 140L as their big board. In my mind those seem so huge for the water state (chop and swell), but I guess for a bigger guy they can use more momentum to glide through bigger chop and can use more weight to sink the rails in a turn.

I often wonder what it's like to be a bigger guy. There are definitely areas of windsurfing (speed) where being heavier is a good thing!

aaron
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Anonymous11 October 2013 at 06:41
Hi, I used to kitesurf when I was about 95 Kilos and had a lot of fun. Now I am at 125 kilos and I am windsurfing,
One of the greatest challenges as you increase in weight is that the stress level of gusts increases exponentially. F=MV2 meaning that if a larger sail is required, the gusts affect the sale with exponentially increasing force, making the "strain" envelope greater, In other words, I am using a 6.5 sale on a 30 knt day. At 46 and 265 lbs, I am on a 206l board and have no trouble getting up and going, but still trying to learn to keep a plane and get into straps. But it is expected that "larger" people have less muscle to weight ratios making it more strenuous to drag around the extra weight. IT is no different than a 70kg surfer adding 20 kg to his back. Assuming the 70 kg surfer is more fit than the 90 kg surfer (less wieght with same muscle mass) Everything will become more stressful, eventually you can get more soar and lose enjoyment of the sport. Best thing to do is just loose weight and enjoy.
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joe windsurfer25 June 2014 at 06:00
for those of you who keep trying to put simple comments here - with a link back to your blog = FORGET IT.
SPAM control puts it in the DELETE box AUTOMATICALLY.
and i will NOT take them out...
comments ONLY please !!!!
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Anonymous1 July 2014 at 07:40
OK, it's been a while since there have been posts here on this topic, and times have changed, so how about a little advice for me?
I'm 53, about 205 lb., pretty active, and used to sail a lot - started out with a Dufour Wing way (way, way) back, on which I eventually mounted straps and a rotating daggerboard to keep it from flipping on its rail at speed. Later had a Bic "shortboard" (about 9'10" if I recall correctly.) Back in the day I was able to water start (IF I had around 15 knots of breeze; don't recall my sail size back then), beach start, tack, jibe, use a harness, and surf in waves with no issue. I also am an experienced sailor in other realms- large boats, Hobies, 470s, you name it, so I understand the physics and can handle a sail. My main sailing location will be coastal waters in NW FL, where winds in the summer tend to be relatively light, and I most likely will be a bit of a fair weather sailor, limiting my sailing season to warm water during the summer - I've done my time in cold water and probably won't bother with conditions where I need a wetsuit - I'll mountain bike instead.
I need a board/sail combination that:
1. Is floaty and stable enough for me to uphaul in any wind/wave conditions. I assume I will regain my waterstart ability in higher winds, but want to have sufficient float to be able to have the uphaul capability my back pocket regardless of conditions, balance permitting.
2. Has a daggerboard, so I can use it viably in light winds that prevail down here in Florida in the summer. I need to be able to get back upwind if I'm not planing, but would like to be able to retract it for fun conditions.
3. I feel like I would like something a bit shorter than a traditional longboard, so I could have fun ripping around in higher winds, hopping a few waves on occasion, and maybe surfing just a bit in smaller shorebreak, but I have no real intentions of surfing waves of significant magnitude. The ability to jump on a plane in lighter winds and have some fun zipping around in flat water or in the chop is more important, and frankly, I also would probably would like to use the board for SUP, and it's probable that most of the "surf" action I would get would be in small (<3 ft face) waves as a SUP if I cart it over to the east coast in the summer.
I've just started researching boards, and figured I'd toss this out there an see what might be recommended.
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Anonymous2 July 2014 at 14:51
Thanks; would appreciate the advice. One board to do everything is a lot- probably too much- to ask, of course - need a category for "do a little bit of everything reasonably well and not get boring in 6 months" boards.
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Anonymous2 July 2014 at 17:04
I'm trying to remember what my Bic "shortboard" was; I think it may have been a 9.6 pintail, rather than 9'10" as in my original post- single fin, footstraps, no daggerboard, but a bit of a V bottom. I was able to uphaul that board if winds were too light to waterstart; although it could be a bit dicey in chop, it was floaty enough. I have, um, added a few pounds since then, ahem - must have grown taller, eh? - but I'm also certain that board was narrower than what I seem to be seeing is often the case with today's crop of boards in the 9-11' range, so a new board would likely be a bit more stable. No idea what the volume of that board might have been. I may go see if I can find some history on it.
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Anonymous3 July 2014 at 08:20
Great; thanks for the advice- time to go get serious about a new board!
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Anonymous11 August 2015 at 01:06
I'm close to 300 pounds at 6'2". My big ass just started on a hi fly board that I believe is 240 liters. My sail is 6.5m. I can uphaul fine, but when lighter friends are on the board I can see how the relative extra buoyancy makes it easier for them. I can gybe and come about successfully 50% of the time in winds that are 10-14 mph. I'm starting to desire a harness. The board is a beast -- heavy and long. But it still lets me have fun. Any ideas about what a good and cheap upgrade would be?
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Unknown25 February 2017 at 13:32
Hello

Can you suggest me a race harness for heavy guys?

Regards

Paco
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Unknown25 February 2017 at 13:33
Hello

Would you be kind to suggest me a race harness for heavy and wide guys?

Regards

Paco
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Unknown11 April 2017 at 07:49
Aloha community,

I live in Maui and I'm getting back into wave sailing after 10 years off.

I'm now 46 and 230, last time I sailed I was 35 and 180. What a difference the weight has made I tell ya, haha!

So I'm buying a board from my local shop here in kahului where things are so laid back that these guys are just giving me boards to try out till I found one that worked. Here's the board that I ended up with that was the perfect fit for me.

First off, I just want to say that my main focus is wave sailing outer-reef breaks, lower and upper Kanaha, Sprecks, Mama's Fish house, Hookipa and my favorite - down wind coast runs from Hookipa to my house in Paukukalo (by the kahului harbor) Therefore since I wave sail and do coast runs I really need a board that will keep me plaining and one that isn't so big that it won't preform on the wave face (carving, off da lips, tricks), but big enough not to sink in between the huge sets trying to get back out past the waves so I can ride one back in.

The wind here is pretty much a steady 25 knots starboard sailing year round, with the exception of the summer months where there are no waves and the wind is more like 30 knots.

I would say that I am a very experienced sailer but 75 liter boards are out of the question for me. So I had to start my board search by picking a brand and I decided to go with the JP Quad wave pro edition (carbon sandwich). This board allows you to run a quad gin set-up for really turney, or thruster set-up (three fins) for turney-stable-good upwind and single find set-up that's for normal sailing no waves, good all around, very stable & best upwind. The first JP I tried was the 93 liters. Not enough! Tried the 95 liters, still to squirmy for me and not enough! Tried the 103 ltiers felt way better. Then tried the 113 liter JP wave and that felt great for me. I got two new sails 2016 & 2017 Neil Pryde The Fly's. I bought a 4.8 & 5.1. These are three baton wawe sails. I recommend these to any big guy. They have a ton of pull in the right spot and are VERY powerful sails. Lucky me that the 2018 JP's are out for sail at an undiscored location and I get to go get my new JP this Friday. I'm sure I will be happy with this board for a long time. If I get back down to 200 one day then I will buy a 95 or 103 liter wave board at that time, but the 113 liter wave is just right for me.

Any Big Billies out there like me that have a ton of experience, but are way out of practice and want to get back into the sport of wind and/or wavesailing, trust me, a good place to start if your around 230 lbs would be between 115 to 140 liters. Any smaller than that you will be fighting it all the way like I did testing all of the smaller sizes first trying to get to the right board for me.

My advise is find a good shop to work with that will allow you to test different boards until you find the right size for you. Your local shop should allow you to put those rental fee's towards the purchase of the board that you choose. If they don't then find a shop that will.

Happy board shopping and hope you find the perfect size board for you.

Kokua!
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Brenda Stevens8 April 2018 at 05:27
also...what do you think of those INFLAtaBLE windsurfing boards? See them sold for a bit under 500.00 from hammacher (dot) com . I think this sport keeps you young!!!!!
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