JP SLW vs SB US - big FreeRide or MiniFormula ?
The JP SLW is the JP Super Light Wind and the SB US is the StarBoard Ultrasonic.
The SLW now comes in 2 widths - 90 and 92. The models are called JP SLW90 and SLW92.
The SB US is known as the US 147 since it is 147 liters...
(This discussion was started in 2012-2013 around when I purchased a JP SLW92. Since then, in 2017, the SB US barely changed -- 241x95 and still 147 liters and the JP SLW has only the JP SLW92 , but is now 235x92 with 165 liters)
May as well compare specifications/specs right away ...
the JP SLW92 OFO/one foot off - is 72 cm as measured by yours truly - means it can handle a 70 cm Formula fin!
So, what are these boards all about?
They seem wider than the large free-ride or slalom boards and yet NOT as wide as a formula board.
Starboard Formula boards are 100 cm wide and 228 cm long ...
So, these boards are narrower and longer than Formula boards ...
They are wider and shorter than longboards.
They are wider and about the same in length as the larger free-ride boards.
Tinho Dornellas of Calema in Florida feels they are NOT long enough to be gliders in light wind...,
They are early planers and fast boards in a range of about 10 to 20 knots - depending on weight...
René of auventfou in Montreal says he planes in 8 knots with the JP SLW92 and a 10-oh sail !!
They are large wider free-ride boards that plane as early as a Formula board ...
And as such require larger fins and sails, butt NOT to the extent of a Formula...
Fins are smaller than Formula, can plane early without too much pumping and gybe easier..
Planche-Mag called the SB US a mini-Formula ...
As written in Auzzie forum:
If you are focused on SPEED in light winds then an XL slalom board is probably the go.
The JPs have improved their fins - they were considered too soft at first.
The SLW92 was introduced later with a little more length and supposed to be "easier".
Yet people have clocked 30+ knots on it...
As Rik of rikswindsurfing says:
There is definitely no need to spend out on an additional fin to get some good use from this board
The SB is listed as a free-race. Many people really love it as a light wind blaster. It is shorter than the JP and just a little bit wider.
And from Starboard:
The SLW now comes in 2 widths - 90 and 92. The models are called JP SLW90 and SLW92.
The SB US is known as the US 147 since it is 147 liters...
(This discussion was started in 2012-2013 around when I purchased a JP SLW92. Since then, in 2017, the SB US barely changed -- 241x95 and still 147 liters and the JP SLW has only the JP SLW92 , but is now 235x92 with 165 liters)
May as well compare specifications/specs right away ...
the JP SLW92 OFO/one foot off - is 72 cm as measured by yours truly - means it can handle a 70 cm Formula fin!
So, what are these boards all about?
They seem wider than the large free-ride or slalom boards and yet NOT as wide as a formula board.
Starboard Formula boards are 100 cm wide and 228 cm long ...
So, these boards are narrower and longer than Formula boards ...
They are wider and shorter than longboards.
They are wider and about the same in length as the larger free-ride boards.
Tinho Dornellas of Calema in Florida feels they are NOT long enough to be gliders in light wind...,
They are early planers and fast boards in a range of about 10 to 20 knots - depending on weight...
René of auventfou in Montreal says he planes in 8 knots with the JP SLW92 and a 10-oh sail !!
They are large wider free-ride boards that plane as early as a Formula board ...
And as such require larger fins and sails, butt NOT to the extent of a Formula...
Fins are smaller than Formula, can plane early without too much pumping and gybe easier..
Planche-Mag called the SB US a mini-Formula ...
As written in Auzzie forum:
If you are focused on SPEED in light winds then an XL slalom board is probably the go.
The JPs have improved their fins - they were considered too soft at first.
The SLW92 was introduced later with a little more length and supposed to be "easier".
Yet people have clocked 30+ knots on it...
As Rik of rikswindsurfing says:
There is definitely no need to spend out on an additional fin to get some good use from this board
Here is a JP SLW from the JP site:
The SB is listed as a free-race. Many people really love it as a light wind blaster. It is shorter than the JP and just a little bit wider.
Here is a SB US from the SB site:
In early comparisons the SB US won out during the windsurfing magazine tests. This seems to have been mostly due to the poorly supplied fin on the JP - at that time.... At yet the discussions said - which planes first ? don't ask, just get one and plane :-)
Perhaps the SB US is a little faster. As i already stated, it is also a little shorter. This means it is okay for fast tacks, but NOT for longboard style tacks. The JP SLW92 should be a little more forgiving in this category since it is 10 cm longer. Both jibe well, as we can see in the photos :-) In the JP foto he has not even stepped all the way across.
They are very similiar boards: in width, length, volume, have cutouts, similiar cost, etc.
Both seem to have suggestions about having racing decks - comfortable to go fast it seems ..
One may be slightly faster than the other, butt by how much ??
Let's see if we can find some videos - from the suppliers first...
And from Starboard:
Based on what the suppliers have posted, JP is selling early light wind planing - as the name SuperLightWind implies and Starboard is selling speed - as the name UltraSonic implies. I was somewhat surprised and disappointed that i did not find a video where Tiesda You describes all the details of the SB board - as he did with the iSonics ... Remi Villa speaks about the US in their race boards discussion- where he discusses other freerace/race boards like the Futura and the iSonics - > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ASuRkebepI4
Most free-riders in the area, including myself, do not get too excited about going out on the water until the wind hits 15 to 16 knots. And even then, as a heavyweight of 100 kilos, I am going out with a 160 liter board and 8.x race sail . Auzzie forum says 16 to 20 knot winds should only require a 6.5 - even with my weight. Are they implying i should be able to plane in 12 knots with my 160 and 8.x ?? In 12 knots i have planed on my 160, butt i was using a 10-oh race sail. So, how early planing are these mini-Formulas/ extra-wide free-riders ?? An 87 kilo rider says that in 8 to 14 knot winds he was planing all the time with a 64 cm soft fin and 10.9 sail.
These boards are what i call FreeFormula. That type of board was around from 2000 to 2004. Mine is a BIC Techno Formula/BTF of 94 cm and longer at 267 cm. With my weight it planes up easily in 10 knot winds using a TR-4 10-oh race sail. So, I can assume the JP SLW and SB US would do the same for someone like myself.
What people like about these boards is the fins are a little shorter, footstraps are not as far out, gybes are not as difficult when one compares to Formula. However, a Formula rider explains that in a race the Formula will win - except on a reach - as in the SB video earlier. In such light winds should one be concerned which one is faster by a knot or two ?? In my case - NON ! It has to be about FUN and TOW/time on water. That was why i purchased the BTF in the first place. When 20 kph/10 knot winds are announced, I can go and plane !!
For me the big question is - if my BTF ever dies or gets stolen - heaven forbid, which one would i choose ?? Everyone keeps telling me to go for the SB US. I feel the JP SLW92 would be best suited to me. It has more volume, longer and is more forgiving. AND it can still be coaxed to over 30 knot speeds ... Also, the wood version is the only one under $2000. For me and my skills, I will not notice much difference between wood, pro and gold. Why does JP make three (3) versions of the same board ??
Jean-Marc of the SB TEAM recently commented: No worries for your 103 kg with US147. A pal of 105 kg is using one with an Overdrive 11 m2 sail + 62 cm fin (planing as of 8 knots of wind) or a NCX 9.0 m2 sail + 58 cm fin (planing as of 12 knots).
So, if you want early planing AND speed , butt donut mind the shorter nose of the SB US, that would be the board for you. However, some sites are warning that this board is more for advanced riders and that intermediates will learn to work with it !! I am an intermediate at best.
For both boards {SB & JP} i feel one will start with one sail and fin and will find two sails and associated fins are required. AND both board can probably go from 10 knot winds to 20 knot winds !! ie BIG range...
Unfortunately I do NOT have either board NOR have i seen either one first hand. Evan from work has a SB US, butt i have not seen him out on it yet - we sail at different locations :-(
I will definitely go see him on his SB US and his JP SuperSport this year {2013}
Are there any other differences?? The SB US does have a dropped mast track. The JP SLW92 has forward placed footstrap option.The JP has slight VEE going to a flat area. What about the SB ?? They speak about hard rails for speed and curved tail for gybes. + they speak about a new rocker line ?? One article says "The flat V bottom provides a dynamic water flow and assures a fluid drive."
Here are a couple of videos to close out the discussion:
In this first one, WindSurfing Magazine does a better job selling the board than any StarBoard video.
Starboard UltraSonic 147 from WINDSURFING magazine on Vimeo.
Let's see what the same magazine says about the JP SLW :
Here is a video of the SB US:
HAD a video from Rikswindsurfing about the JP SLW - like what i was anticipating from Tiesda You of SB !! disappearing videos are getting REALLY annoying #$%^&*( replaced video with this one : think the dude is team rider
JP SUPER LIGHTWIND 90 - Early planing from Sebastian Kornum on Vimeo.
Why would one chose one of these boards over a Formula board ? Formula is dedicated to race with very large fins and sails. These boards are one step closer to free-ride. Formula can be very expensive, butt these days i find all the boards are pricing themselves out of the market. Who can afford $3000 boards ?
Why would one chose one of these over free-ride? Earlier planing with a large wind range would be the answer. Evan has an SB US and his next board down is a JP SuperSport 127. The SB US gets him out in winds from 10 to 16 knots and after that he blasts on the smaller free-race. The range of 10 to 16 is common to many areas of the world and not every one has the equipment to go out then. I feel this board is an addition to the free-ride quiver that starts at 16 knots ie get out on the water sooner - b4 16 knot winds.
Why would one chose one of these over a longboard? This is a personal choice. There are longboards with more range and glide than these boards. Even a hybrid like a KONA can go from say 7 knots to 20+ knots. The race longboards are very expensive and technical to sail - in the sense that there are tricks to make them faster under different situations and the mast track adjusts during sailing. As i said, this is a very personal choice and depends on what you do...
If you are not into racing, then this is an option over slalom as well...
There are now free-move boards, butt they make more sense in the 120 to 130 liter range and NOT as light wind planing machines. They are more about maneuverability than early planing and speed.
Personally i hope these FreeFormula boards catch on and become a standard !!!
Perhaps a new race class one day for the average joe windsurfer ??
Some people have tried one of these boards and did NOT like them.
{In the past it was about the JP SLW fin, butt that was corrected.}
Mostly it is about when the wind drops ie schlogging {and a little about speed}.
This is an issue for Formula as well - that is where the name mini-Formula applies.
These unhappy campers either go on to race longboards or other large freerace shortboards .
Tinho Dornellas feels the length is part of the issue and has built the custom Z2 - 296 x 84 cm.
--------------------
Will post other reviews of these boards as i find 'em:
http://whitelionwindsurfing.blogspot.ca/2011/02/jp-super-light-wind.html
damn - another link NOT working ... and cannot find the info ...
http://forums.boards.co.uk/showthread.php/58624-Starboard-Ultrasonic-vs-JP-Superlight-Wind
with references to MANY other links ...
where only two were new and still worked !!
http://board-worx.blogspot.com/2011/02/starboard-ultra-sonic-wood-carbon-147l.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RXLvBBuIx4&feature=related
and Tiesda You on Wood and Carbon on Windsurf Boards:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fanatic Falcon 152 is 230 cm long and 90 cm wide - too short - even if faster than JP SLW
Exocet RS7 is 232 cm and 90 cm wide - again too short and 149 liters
both handle sails 7.5 to 11.0
18APR2013 i went to the Windspirit shop in St-Hyacinthe on the South Shore to pick up my TR-6 8.4 sail and there was a JP SLW90 in the showroom. It was the carbon version. My first impressions were that it is short for its width - as anticipated. It is also MUCH lighter than i had anticipated !! The fellow who bought it is a 72 year old who is apparently quite a good sailor. Unfortunately the story is this may be his last board as he is battling cancer. I wish him GOOD winds and lotsa fun on this lovely looking board. It looks like he purchased a weed fin right away as well ...
In 2014 I saw a used SB US at 2-rad in St-Laurent. Bruno said it was used ONCE. The buyer felt that it just did NOT handle chop :-(
Same year, Bruno also told me he can plane with a 7.5 on a smaller board in steady 12 knot winds. Bruno is no light weight and is close to 200 pounds. He says the importance is steady winds AND technique. Locally he says that is MUCH more difficult. Fresh water and unsteady winds.
This year saw a used JP SLW 90 sell VERY quickly. Especially after discussed on light wind day on Quebec Wind forum :-) Was about $1200 - ONLY. New is about $2200 to $3200!!! Perhaps it was belonging to the 72 year old who was battling cancer. Certainly hope NOT !!!
End of 2014 - sold my BIC Techno Formula and purchased a JP SLW92:
http://joewindsurfer.com/jp-super-lightwind-slw.html
with a Select Ultra Race 66 cm fin !!
This board is closer to what I am used to in terms of length and as such should be okay for tacking. The others are much shorter - as much as 20 cm. Also this fin was what I used on the BIC Techno Formula. Will also purchase a DT True Ames SantaBarbara/SB 58 cm weedie. René says this is the BEST weedie for the board. People have tried MANY others, but always come back to that fin. If auventfou does not have one next year, they are available in the US.Have found that people DO use the board with a Severne 8.6 race sail, but usually with a slightly smaller fin - around 51 cm. Personally will try this with the weedie.
It seems this is catching on - there is now the freemove "movement" which replaced even the Fanatic Shark in 2015. RRD with Antoine Albeau/AA made a board called the RRD X-Fire LightWind which is 236 cm x 91 cm. Sounds a LOT like the JP SLW90. Then again, AA was involved in the JP SLW development with Micah Buzanis and JP !! Here is a a photo:
Then again , he is just as large in name - Roberto Ricci :-)
In 2015 Jeff from Ozland sent me a PDF he downloaded from the German Surf Mag...
It was about the "new" boards that are like Formula and yet ...
As you know, I call them FreeFormula - typically 90 to 95 cm wide.
In their analysis they rated them in terms of freeride vs freerace vs race.
Here it is going from freeride to race. Have left out the Lorch since it is Euro based ONLY...
SL55 wrote on Auzzie forum
I bought a new 2013 Ultrasonic as a replacement for my aging SLW154. Using those two boards side by side for a few days now I found that SU is not as early planing board as my SLW. In the same conditions with the same 10m free-race sail and Select S12 59 fin there is about 1- 2 mph difference. It was expected to a degree because of US’s lower volume and much narrower tail. It may also be because I know how to squeeze every drop of performance out of SLW, and US is a new board for me. I also noticed that US is much more sensitive to the fin choice. It gets easily overfinned as it picks up speed and starts doing wheelies in gusts, and as a consequence I have consistently better max speed by GPS on SLW. On the other hand, if I put a smaller (55cm) Select, it is harder to get it on the plane.
At the end of the season I did not change my opinion. Contrary to what you may read on the internet, US is behaving like a big free ride board, it has more comfortable rails under feet, and it is probably better for light weight riders. SLW feels more like a slalom board, but it is less demanding on the fin choice and is more controllable at speed and goes upwind better. It is better if you are heavier. Both boards are not slow. My boards are older models. The difference is going to be bigger with 2016 boards due to larger difference in volume, 147 vs 168. Larger volume may hurt the ride in chop though..
Message to Rob and Pino :-)
hey dudes - for the windsurf on ice n snow videos click here
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2013/02/finally-got-to-test-snow-version-with.html
and here
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2013/02/testing-gopro-upside-down-on-boom.html
and ...
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2013/02/light-winds-on-ice-with-63.html
hope they make you smile :-)
sorry u could not find 'em due to all the other windsurf "stuff" :-)
all you had to do was google joe windsurfer videos :-)
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2013/02/finally-got-to-test-snow-version-with.html
and here
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2013/02/testing-gopro-upside-down-on-boom.html
and ...
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2013/02/light-winds-on-ice-with-63.html
hope they make you smile :-)
sorry u could not find 'em due to all the other windsurf "stuff" :-)
all you had to do was google joe windsurfer videos :-)
Hybrids - Phantom 320 vs Kona ONE
This is a small preface since I use a term hybrid here and some may deem this inappropriate for these boards... I got this idea from this site: http://windsurfraceboard.blogspot.ca/2011/02/new-hybrid-rsone-neil-pryde.html and leave it as such for now - until i am convinced otherwise about what "hybrids" really are.
I was somewhat surprised when i discovered the Phantom 320 is considered a "hybrid". People seem to consider hybrids those boards that can handle the biggest range of conditions like 5 to 25 knots, but are not particularly GREAT in that range. However, they are VERY good !!! Some are calling these the "next generation longboards". The same people seem to consider hybrids to be short and wide with centerboards - huh?
From the Starboard site,"The Phantom Race 320 is designed to win the Hybrid 320 segment of the Raceboarding class. This hybrid segment limits the maximum length to 320cm and allows for designs up to 100cm wide." The K1 with the a step tail and flat bottom feels like it is trying to be both a longboard AND a short board and as such fits into the true meaning of a hybrid - a mix or cross of two.
I was looking at the Phantom 320 as a potential replacement of my Fanatic Ultra CAT if and only IF i discovered that i preferred long boarding over my BIC Techno Formula, which i consider a "FreeFormula" ie slightly less wide than a Formula AND longer - again a coined term from me ...
Let's start at the bottom line or price AND availability:
at windspirit.ca the Phantom 320 is quoted at $1469.00 - silentsports has the 295 and 377 ONLY
at windspirit.ca the Kona ONE is quoted at $1889.00 - silentsports has a used Kona $1400.
In other words a new ONE is a bit more, butt used ones are available about same price as NEW 320.
This indicates to me there are fewer 320's available ie more ONEs around - and i happen to know people are happy with them and there is a separate race class at the local races that i attended.
Here is a Kona ONE from the windspirit site:
In terms of hybrids, what are the similarities ??
They are both long and narrow by today's standards...
They both have centreboards and as such are classified as "longboards".
Both plane up fairly easily and ride with the nose out of the water.
And how they differ?
The Kona has the "step tail" which touches water more when "schlogging" and less when planing. It cuts 35 cm off the length of the board.
The Phantom has straps and centreboard based on the 377 raceboard and NO steptail.
Phantom has step to move track while moving, while One does NOT.
And in terms of specs ??
The Kona ONE is 220 liters and the Phantom is 260 liters.
The Phantom is 320 cm long and the One is 350 cm.
Both are about 70 cm wide at widest point.
The Phantom is actually 2 kgs lighter at 13 kg.
The One is PB/powerbox and the Phantom is DT/deep tuttle.
The Phantom is marked good for fins 40 to 48 - comes with 44 cm -- this is about 7.5 on shortboard
The One is to arrive with a 46 cm fin - around 8-oh size sails on shortboard
The Phantom has sailrange 6.5-9.5 and the One 1.5- 9.0 {hard to believe}
The Phantom has a 78 cm centreboard and the ONE is 65 cm.
Okay, let's start the discussion:
http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12997
has some interesting discussion and comments:
There are several International One-design classes that are active :
Bic T293
Starboard Formula Experience (only non-raceboard class compatible)
NeilPryde RS:X
Kona One Design
Mistral One-design
RS:One
I have the impression that T293 is the class with the largest fleet of active racers, followed with FE, RS:X, etc...
Kona One -> lack of performance, disputable deck design, too long at the cost of fun in upper wind range
in my personal opinion the best compromise so far could have been something close to Phantom 320
Another one for the list is the Windsurfer One Design - this is quite an active class in my neck of the woods.
On iwindsurf forum:
As for the Kona, I sailed it about 10 times last year from dead calm to 15+. Hands down the Superlight/Equipe/Phantom are better/faster. The kona is a great recreational board and great for what it is designed for. It's performance just is not as good as the other longboards (but the Kona is definitely better for learning).
Roger of Starboard says:
I think your choice depends a lot on how far down the windspeed spectrum you want to
go. If you simply aren't going to sail in < 7knots of wind, then either board would be good with a slight advantage to the Phantom as it planes a bit more like a short board than the Kona.
If you are going to be sailing in < 7 knots, then the longer waterline length of the Kona gets the advantage. If you are thinking of racing, then the Kona Fleet is the way to go.
The Kona is really big, the Phantom is not quite so big.
Lets get some more photos and then perhaps some videos ...
Here is the Kona ONE step tail:
Here is a better view of the Phantom:
And how do they compare with my Fanatic Ultra CAT ??
CAT is 210 liters and thus closer to the ONE with 220 liters.
The CAT is 374 cm - closer to the ONE and the Phantom 377.
It has a US fin box with small fin and weighs more - like ONE.
They are all around the same width - longboards tend to be narrower ...
Sounds like the CAT is closer to the ONE.
Let's see if we can find some decent videos ?
Kona ONE with P.R. :-) looks like fun with family and socializing
Here's the Phantom 320 - there are less videos about people getting together :-(
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDG_PTdoNDM
Thus far the critical points seem to be:
1) The Kona ONE seems the closest to my current Fanatic Ultra CAT.
2) A major consideration seems to be whether i want to race or not. Racing seems to favor the
ONE i.e. already more organized races for this class of windsurfer & NOT in terms of
open class performance... Update: In the first 2013 Windsport Magazine #135 on p 24 it
states that the Phantom is becoming a race class in Asia - soon here ??
3) What are the minimal winds? The Phantom is lighter and is supposed to plane earlier and
faster.
4) The Phantom seems to be a little less expensive - for the newer model.
5) The Kona ONE is now starting to be available in the used market and that price approaches
the SB Phantom price at new...
6) Would i be better served replacing my BIC Techno Formula/BTF with a JP SLW92 or SB US
rather than replacing the Fanatic Ultra CAT ??
7) Keep looking for a used CAT ??
8) For me in 2013 - fix the CAT as best i can - compare the CAT to the BTF and decide when
necessary - where will the money go
9) As mentioned, perhaps forget the hybrids and go for real longboard like SB Phantom 377,
which is much more expensive...
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Windsport just put out a 2013 equipment issue and is on their site. Here is the piece on the One:
http://windsport.com/gear_article?news_id=1475
{NOT sure why it is in entry and WINDSUP category though}
Kona One
Versatile, friendly and fun to sail. It has grown to be a serious One-Design race class in record time. The characteristic subtle shape combines stability, maneuverability, control and excellent sub-planing performance all in one package. Cruising and racing in all conditions becomes a thrill and performing classic tricks becomes a breeze. The Kona One's natural wave ability in not only a bonus, but the most appreciated aspect among many sailors world wide. It is as demanding for advanced sailors as it is easy for "newbies" because of its versatile design which incorporates a gently curved outline with soft rails and a flat rocker. This board allows you to ride soft, long waves in marginal conditions. Additionally, the planing threshold has been dramatically reduced by implementing the 'step tail' which shortens the waterline when powered up and boosts the board onto a plane much earlier than conventional longboards.
Features:
konaone.com
Teaser Kona CarbOne first ride from Kona Windsurfing on Vimeo.
some more KONA ONE PR/public relations - actually a report :-)
http://www.konaone.com/page/734/return-of-the-longboard/
When i did this analysis I was unaware of the BIC Hybrid OD. I knew about the BIC 293OD, which is aimed at younger and smaller sailors. The Hybrid on the other hand, is aimed at older and larger sailors. They say over 68 kilos, but good up to which weight? Is it an option for a 100 kg heavyweight like me ?
http://www.bicsportwindsurf.com/products/boards,3,31/hybrid,329.html
I find it a bit wide at 82 cm and a bit short at 308. I donut see how this board can slice through water when schlogging rather than gliding. In other words, it feels like a far cry from a longboard in lighter winds. It also asks for very LONG fins -- over 60 cm.
SUN 25AUG2013 - went to BDU to try Sailboarder's KONA. He wanted to try the CAT. The boards are similiar in length and both have VEE up front. The Kona goes flat around the middle for planing and obviously has the step tail. Both weighed about the same ... I set up the MS-oh 8-oh and Yan the KONA 9-oh. Yan set up the KONA with the mast track all the way up and i started with the CAT in the middle. For both of us the CAT went better in the lighter winds. In slightly more wind the KONA was faster. We both felt the CAT would fly with KONA 9-oh sail !!! Once planing the KONA will feel lighter. I would like to see them both with the same sail on the same day :-) Give the day a 7 outta 10. Winds dropped slightly and i got off early. There was another SW sailor and some sail-boat races. The motor boats generated bad waves %^&*()_ I was surprised about the sensitivity of the KONA - the protective covering breaks easily and Yan has busted the nose :-( Helmut dropped by to see the KONA up close ...
For myself ... I have a BIC Techno Formula that can plane in 12 + knots - with my TR-4 10-oh. The CAT was dying and has been replaced with a Mistral Equipe I LCS-XR. The older longboards that are similiar to today's hybrids just glide well .... i almost purchased a used KONA and the fellow went from asking $1400 to $750 !! I was ready to purchase it at $1200, but he said NO. This was a LOSS for both of us cuz i purchased the Equipe in the interim ... for a LOT less money, but now my quiver is FULL !!! and will NOT purchase another board and sell what i just purchased !!! So, stick with Mistral Equipe, BIC Techno Formula and AHD FF 160 liter shortboard for the majority of my sailing. The Equipe goes really well with my MS-2 8-oh with the cambers removed. I am guessing i will end up with another 8-oh to replace that one - MS Pursuit 8-oh ??
I was somewhat surprised when i discovered the Phantom 320 is considered a "hybrid". People seem to consider hybrids those boards that can handle the biggest range of conditions like 5 to 25 knots, but are not particularly GREAT in that range. However, they are VERY good !!! Some are calling these the "next generation longboards". The same people seem to consider hybrids to be short and wide with centerboards - huh?
From the Starboard site,"The Phantom Race 320 is designed to win the Hybrid 320 segment of the Raceboarding class. This hybrid segment limits the maximum length to 320cm and allows for designs up to 100cm wide." The K1 with the a step tail and flat bottom feels like it is trying to be both a longboard AND a short board and as such fits into the true meaning of a hybrid - a mix or cross of two.
I was looking at the Phantom 320 as a potential replacement of my Fanatic Ultra CAT if and only IF i discovered that i preferred long boarding over my BIC Techno Formula, which i consider a "FreeFormula" ie slightly less wide than a Formula AND longer - again a coined term from me ...
Let's start at the bottom line or price AND availability:
at windspirit.ca the Phantom 320 is quoted at $1469.00 - silentsports has the 295 and 377 ONLY
at windspirit.ca the Kona ONE is quoted at $1889.00 - silentsports has a used Kona $1400.
In other words a new ONE is a bit more, butt used ones are available about same price as NEW 320.
This indicates to me there are fewer 320's available ie more ONEs around - and i happen to know people are happy with them and there is a separate race class at the local races that i attended.
Here is a Kona ONE from the windspirit site:
And here is the Phantom 320 ...
In terms of hybrids, what are the similarities ??
They are both long and narrow by today's standards...
They both have centreboards and as such are classified as "longboards".
Both plane up fairly easily and ride with the nose out of the water.
And how they differ?
The Kona has the "step tail" which touches water more when "schlogging" and less when planing. It cuts 35 cm off the length of the board.
The Phantom has straps and centreboard based on the 377 raceboard and NO steptail.
Phantom has step to move track while moving, while One does NOT.
And in terms of specs ??
The Kona ONE is 220 liters and the Phantom is 260 liters.
The Phantom is 320 cm long and the One is 350 cm.
Both are about 70 cm wide at widest point.
The Phantom is actually 2 kgs lighter at 13 kg.
The One is PB/powerbox and the Phantom is DT/deep tuttle.
The Phantom is marked good for fins 40 to 48 - comes with 44 cm -- this is about 7.5 on shortboard
The One is to arrive with a 46 cm fin - around 8-oh size sails on shortboard
The Phantom has sailrange 6.5-9.5 and the One 1.5- 9.0 {hard to believe}
The Phantom has a 78 cm centreboard and the ONE is 65 cm.
Okay, let's start the discussion:
http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12997
has some interesting discussion and comments:
There are several International One-design classes that are active :
Bic T293
Starboard Formula Experience (only non-raceboard class compatible)
NeilPryde RS:X
Kona One Design
Mistral One-design
RS:One
I have the impression that T293 is the class with the largest fleet of active racers, followed with FE, RS:X, etc...
Kona One -> lack of performance, disputable deck design, too long at the cost of fun in upper wind range
in my personal opinion the best compromise so far could have been something close to Phantom 320
Another one for the list is the Windsurfer One Design - this is quite an active class in my neck of the woods.
On iwindsurf forum:
As for the Kona, I sailed it about 10 times last year from dead calm to 15+. Hands down the Superlight/Equipe/Phantom are better/faster. The kona is a great recreational board and great for what it is designed for. It's performance just is not as good as the other longboards (but the Kona is definitely better for learning).
Roger of Starboard says:
I think your choice depends a lot on how far down the windspeed spectrum you want to
go. If you simply aren't going to sail in < 7knots of wind, then either board would be good with a slight advantage to the Phantom as it planes a bit more like a short board than the Kona.
If you are going to be sailing in < 7 knots, then the longer waterline length of the Kona gets the advantage. If you are thinking of racing, then the Kona Fleet is the way to go.
The Kona is really big, the Phantom is not quite so big.
Lets get some more photos and then perhaps some videos ...
Here is the Kona ONE step tail:
Here is a better view of the Phantom:
 |
| http://www.windpowerwindsurfing.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_49&products_id=4632 |
And how do they compare with my Fanatic Ultra CAT ??
CAT is 210 liters and thus closer to the ONE with 220 liters.
The CAT is 374 cm - closer to the ONE and the Phantom 377.
It has a US fin box with small fin and weighs more - like ONE.
They are all around the same width - longboards tend to be narrower ...
Sounds like the CAT is closer to the ONE.
Let's see if we can find some decent videos ?
Kona ONE with P.R. :-) looks like fun with family and socializing
Here's the Phantom 320 - there are less videos about people getting together :-(
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDG_PTdoNDM
Thus far the critical points seem to be:
1) The Kona ONE seems the closest to my current Fanatic Ultra CAT.
2) A major consideration seems to be whether i want to race or not. Racing seems to favor the
ONE i.e. already more organized races for this class of windsurfer & NOT in terms of
open class performance... Update: In the first 2013 Windsport Magazine #135 on p 24 it
states that the Phantom is becoming a race class in Asia - soon here ??
3) What are the minimal winds? The Phantom is lighter and is supposed to plane earlier and
faster.
4) The Phantom seems to be a little less expensive - for the newer model.
5) The Kona ONE is now starting to be available in the used market and that price approaches
the SB Phantom price at new...
6) Would i be better served replacing my BIC Techno Formula/BTF with a JP SLW92 or SB US
rather than replacing the Fanatic Ultra CAT ??
7) Keep looking for a used CAT ??
8) For me in 2013 - fix the CAT as best i can - compare the CAT to the BTF and decide when
necessary - where will the money go
9) As mentioned, perhaps forget the hybrids and go for real longboard like SB Phantom 377,
which is much more expensive...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Windsport just put out a 2013 equipment issue and is on their site. Here is the piece on the One:
http://windsport.com/gear_article?news_id=1475
{NOT sure why it is in entry and WINDSUP category though}
Kona One
Versatile, friendly and fun to sail. It has grown to be a serious One-Design race class in record time. The characteristic subtle shape combines stability, maneuverability, control and excellent sub-planing performance all in one package. Cruising and racing in all conditions becomes a thrill and performing classic tricks becomes a breeze. The Kona One's natural wave ability in not only a bonus, but the most appreciated aspect among many sailors world wide. It is as demanding for advanced sailors as it is easy for "newbies" because of its versatile design which incorporates a gently curved outline with soft rails and a flat rocker. This board allows you to ride soft, long waves in marginal conditions. Additionally, the planing threshold has been dramatically reduced by implementing the 'step tail' which shortens the waterline when powered up and boosts the board onto a plane much earlier than conventional longboards.
Features:
- 65cm daggerboard
- 46cm fin
- 4 footstraps
- full soft EVA deck for maximum comfort
konaone.com
Teaser Kona CarbOne first ride from Kona Windsurfing on Vimeo.
some more KONA ONE PR/public relations - actually a report :-)
http://www.konaone.com/page/734/return-of-the-longboard/
When i did this analysis I was unaware of the BIC Hybrid OD. I knew about the BIC 293OD, which is aimed at younger and smaller sailors. The Hybrid on the other hand, is aimed at older and larger sailors. They say over 68 kilos, but good up to which weight? Is it an option for a 100 kg heavyweight like me ?
http://www.bicsportwindsurf.com/products/boards,3,31/hybrid,329.html
I find it a bit wide at 82 cm and a bit short at 308. I donut see how this board can slice through water when schlogging rather than gliding. In other words, it feels like a far cry from a longboard in lighter winds. It also asks for very LONG fins -- over 60 cm.
SUN 25AUG2013 - went to BDU to try Sailboarder's KONA. He wanted to try the CAT. The boards are similiar in length and both have VEE up front. The Kona goes flat around the middle for planing and obviously has the step tail. Both weighed about the same ... I set up the MS-oh 8-oh and Yan the KONA 9-oh. Yan set up the KONA with the mast track all the way up and i started with the CAT in the middle. For both of us the CAT went better in the lighter winds. In slightly more wind the KONA was faster. We both felt the CAT would fly with KONA 9-oh sail !!! Once planing the KONA will feel lighter. I would like to see them both with the same sail on the same day :-) Give the day a 7 outta 10. Winds dropped slightly and i got off early. There was another SW sailor and some sail-boat races. The motor boats generated bad waves %^&*()_ I was surprised about the sensitivity of the KONA - the protective covering breaks easily and Yan has busted the nose :-( Helmut dropped by to see the KONA up close ...
For myself ... I have a BIC Techno Formula that can plane in 12 + knots - with my TR-4 10-oh. The CAT was dying and has been replaced with a Mistral Equipe I LCS-XR. The older longboards that are similiar to today's hybrids just glide well .... i almost purchased a used KONA and the fellow went from asking $1400 to $750 !! I was ready to purchase it at $1200, but he said NO. This was a LOSS for both of us cuz i purchased the Equipe in the interim ... for a LOT less money, but now my quiver is FULL !!! and will NOT purchase another board and sell what i just purchased !!! So, stick with Mistral Equipe, BIC Techno Formula and AHD FF 160 liter shortboard for the majority of my sailing. The Equipe goes really well with my MS-2 8-oh with the cambers removed. I am guessing i will end up with another 8-oh to replace that one - MS Pursuit 8-oh ??
Analysis of My Windsurf Quiver for 2013
The temperatures are going up, the snow and ice are melting. Guess that means it is time to put away my snow sailboard and ice sailboard. I am always sad to see them go into hibernation. They are so much fun ...
Well, so is water sailboarding !!!
OK, let's see where to go from here ...
My fins are covered from 34 cm to 48 cm in the power box version
and for the BIC Techno Formula/BTF trimm box as well - 58 cm weed and 66 cm race.
The sail range is covered well for my skills, light wind in the area and my weight - 6.3, 7-oh, MS-2 8-oh to be replaced with a TR-6 8.4 and a TR-4 10-oh. An 8.5 was my first new sail and that size is still my most used ...
The boards are covered, butt feel like they could use some "amelioration" or improvement.
The BTF has a trimm box that is prone to losing fins and the board is known to NOT be super fast. So far this has NOT been an issue, butt i do like to look at potential replacements well in advance. So far the replacement potential is Tinho's Z2 {Florida is far}, JP SLW92 {slow? } and perhaps SB US {fast}. There are now MANY other options in this category - freemoves are getting bigger and there is now a Falcon 152 which is quite wide ...Some of these boards are around $2000 %^&*()
The Fanatic Ultra CAT has seen better years. Will try to repair it and see one more time which board i prefer - BTF or CAT. The potential replacement for this is the Phantom Race 320 - the 377 is too $$$ and new - with those batwings ... The SB Phantom 320 is about $1400...
The AHD FastForward 160 is still a good board, butt feel i can do better. Discussed with Yvan of auventfou and Planchemag did a study where the AHD FF 130 was rated better than even the Fanatic Shark 130 !! AND there is a "white version" which only costs about $1100. The fin sucks, butt i have others ... Yvan feels i can sell my 160 for about $500...
The Fanatic BEE 124 LTD will NOT be replaced - will stay my high wind practice board :-)
If i went through with all of these changes - it would cost me about $4000.
Obviously i CANNOT do this and i have stuff to carry me through the year for now ...
Last year the CAT and BTF were the most used boards....about 73 % of the time ...
Another 25% of the time the AHD 160 was used and was fine.
Thus NO change for the shortboards - analyze the FreeFormula and the CAT...
AND So, my analysis of FreeFormula versus longboard will start soooon ....
Oh yeah - since i now have a GoPro capable of 720HD - there will be video coverage :-)
All i need to do is find some decent video editing software. Windows Movie Maker really sucks :(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I analyze what to use and under which conditions, I think I am well covered :-)
under 10 knots/ 20 kph - Fanatic CAT longboard with 8.x or 10-oh
around 10 knots - BIC FreeFormula with 10-oh and 66 cm fin
around 16 knots / 20-40 kph either BTF or AHD 160 with 8.x using 48 cm fin
around 20 knots / 30-50 AHD 160 or BEE 124 with 7-oh using 40 cm fin
around 25 knots Fanatic BEE LTD 124 with 6.3 using 34 cm fin
over that - i'm dunn
i only use weed fins when absolutely necessary - NOT a big fan
so, what is my dream quiver ?? :-)
under 10 knots SB Phantom 377 with 8.4 or 10-oh/or in excellent condition Fanatic Mega CAT :-)
around 10 knots SB US or JP SLW92 with 10-oh and 8.4 in more wind
around 16 knots 135 free-race board with 8.4 => probably not required
Tabou Rocket 125 somewhere in here/JP Supersport 125 somewhere in here
around 20 knots 115 litre more manoeuverable board with 6.3 or 7-oh
around 25 knots 115 with 5.7 or 6.3
and be able to go in stronger winds and bigger chop/waves :-)
sometimes wish one had the cash to just try different boards and sell what does not work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how about analysis by board type
at this time - ready to invest in longboard - not really
ready to invest in Formula - NON
in mini-Formula = YES
in free-race = YES
so, without any testing, IF required i would be willing to save towards free-race and/or mini-Formula
am guessing the mini-Formula will beat out the longboard and one day i will end up with a wide, large board - like the JP SLW92 ....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
an element NOT to be overlooked are the current SKILLS !!
for example : i read on the Auzzie forum about heavyweights planing in 15 to 20 knot winds with a 6.5
in 15 knot winds i am with an 8.x and 6.3 towards the 20 knot point ...
all this to say - a quiver is useless without some skills
unfortunately last year winds were NOT great and i did NOT practice footstraps
i DID practice beachstarts and a little bit of waterstarts
to GET to the next level i MUST overcome my fear of footstraps and MASTER water starts
part of the problem is : it is difficult for a heavyweight to practice these things in light winds
the footstraps WILL be mastered on the BTF/BIC Techno Formula which is already used in lighter winds
the waterstarts need stronger winds or the sail is too large to master - Helmut suggests 7-oh and down
once i get IN the footstraps , water start anywhere and BLAST i hope to get a GPS
it seems the standard is the Locosys GT-31 which can be found on e-bay for about $150
another thing to start saving for - or is this really required ??
ideally could just use something that shows current speed - how about car Garmin in an aquabag ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
regarding the longboard and FreeFormula discussion:
I just re-read an article in the June 1999 edition of the Windsurfing Magazine. It was about the F2 380, the F2 Phoenix and the AHD 299. The F2 380 was classified as a full-length longboard, the F2 Phoenix 320 was classified as a transition longboard and the AHD 299 was classified as a wide shortboard. In today's world I would extrapolate this to the Starboard Phantom 377, SB Phantom 320 and the JP SLW92. In the article it was clear that under 8 mph the wide shortboard did NOT have a chance. The 380 was better than the 320 by about one or two mph. At about 10 mph they all did well and if there were no lulls, the wide short board was unbeatable.
So, as usual, it all comes down to wind speed and consistency.
Under 10 knots one should use a longboard and if into racing - a full-length 380 longboard.
If racing open class and wishing to save some money - transition 320 longboard.
Over 10 knots it becomes a personal choice where the wider shortboard will be faster.
Personally enjoy the speed and ride of my FreeFormula 94 cm wide board. As such, I do not see myself purchasing a modern longboard - nor even a modern hybrid.
If and when the BIC Techno Formula breaks down - the JP SLW92 will probably be the replacement board.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have picked up my MauiSails TR-6 8.4 and tested it on the water with the Fanatic Ultra CAT twice. Now the sail quiver is definitely complete. In terms of boards I am covered as well. Now all i need is some wind and the time to go out :-) As stated thus far it has mostly been light winds with the CAT and 8.4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are now in August 2013 and I can describe what has worked so far this year, what has not and the "events" of the year. First event was the MauiSails TR-4 10-oh head cap no longer retains the mast. The mast pops through the top. This is apparently a known problem and local sail shop can repair this for under $100. In the meantime the BTF and 10-oh combo is NOT being used :-(
The clip broke on the mast base of the FUC board {Fanatic Ultra CAT}. I was able to repair it with crazee glue - epoxy did NOT hold. Unfortunately this is now a weak point on the board and i am now reluctant to take this board far out into Lac de Deux Montagnes. I started analysing and looking at SB Phantom 320s and Kona ONEs. They are too much money. Mostly use the CAT on the local river - will use the Dufour next spring instead and keep the CAT in the country until replaced.
The MS2 8-oh now has broken battens that i tried to repair and in the end i removed the cambers on the sail. This works well on the CAT/longboards and the AHD 160 when choppy ie easier to uphaul than the TR-6 8.4. Also, the AHD has been going really well with 8.x and 7-oh ie i am enjoying that board.
Tried Sailboarder's KONA ONE - which planes well after about 12 knots, but does NOT glide as well as the FUC / CAT. Was also looking at a Phantom 320, butt not ready to spend $900 on board that needs repairs on the bottom ...
And so, i will continue with what i have, but replace the CAT with the Dufour when spring comes - for sailing on the local river, and get the TR-4 10-oh repaired.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now in OCT 2013 - Tried to fix the CAT and purchased a Mistral Equipe I LCS-XR. Could NOT see myself starting 2014 without a good longboard - nor ending 2013 with the BIC Dufour... Both the CAT and the Equipe are like a modern hybrid, but glide better than the KONA that I tested. I almost purchased a KONA and then considered selling almost everything to cover the cost. The fellow selling would not go for $1200 and now his price is even lower. Feels like we both lost out. In terms of the TR-6 8.4 sail, I do like it, but find with my skills - when winds are tough with some chop , i do not like having to uphaul this sail. I MUST learn to water start - especially the TR. The first experiments indicate that I must get a new life jacket that will sustain me up while water starting. Unfortunately the season is ending with few windsurf sessions -- September had four(4) sessions and this month only three(3) so far with the month half over... Helmut will be putting his stuff away soon and the mitts will be out with the next session surely.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) need a new life jacket for water starts and safety - purchased in 2014
2) really like and use a no cam 8-oh - mine is OLD - purchased in 2014
3) one day need to replace the 7-oh - purchased in 2014
4) the 10-oh needs a $100 repair - sail NOT used this year - found work-around in 2014
Well, so is water sailboarding !!!
OK, let's see where to go from here ...
My fins are covered from 34 cm to 48 cm in the power box version
and for the BIC Techno Formula/BTF trimm box as well - 58 cm weed and 66 cm race.
The sail range is covered well for my skills, light wind in the area and my weight - 6.3, 7-oh, MS-2 8-oh to be replaced with a TR-6 8.4 and a TR-4 10-oh. An 8.5 was my first new sail and that size is still my most used ...
The boards are covered, butt feel like they could use some "amelioration" or improvement.
The BTF has a trimm box that is prone to losing fins and the board is known to NOT be super fast. So far this has NOT been an issue, butt i do like to look at potential replacements well in advance. So far the replacement potential is Tinho's Z2 {Florida is far}, JP SLW92 {slow? } and perhaps SB US {fast}. There are now MANY other options in this category - freemoves are getting bigger and there is now a Falcon 152 which is quite wide ...Some of these boards are around $2000 %^&*()
The Fanatic Ultra CAT has seen better years. Will try to repair it and see one more time which board i prefer - BTF or CAT. The potential replacement for this is the Phantom Race 320 - the 377 is too $$$ and new - with those batwings ... The SB Phantom 320 is about $1400...
The AHD FastForward 160 is still a good board, butt feel i can do better. Discussed with Yvan of auventfou and Planchemag did a study where the AHD FF 130 was rated better than even the Fanatic Shark 130 !! AND there is a "white version" which only costs about $1100. The fin sucks, butt i have others ... Yvan feels i can sell my 160 for about $500...
The Fanatic BEE 124 LTD will NOT be replaced - will stay my high wind practice board :-)
If i went through with all of these changes - it would cost me about $4000.
Obviously i CANNOT do this and i have stuff to carry me through the year for now ...
Last year the CAT and BTF were the most used boards....about 73 % of the time ...
Another 25% of the time the AHD 160 was used and was fine.
Thus NO change for the shortboards - analyze the FreeFormula and the CAT...
AND So, my analysis of FreeFormula versus longboard will start soooon ....
Oh yeah - since i now have a GoPro capable of 720HD - there will be video coverage :-)
All i need to do is find some decent video editing software. Windows Movie Maker really sucks :(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I analyze what to use and under which conditions, I think I am well covered :-)
under 10 knots/ 20 kph - Fanatic CAT longboard with 8.x or 10-oh
around 10 knots - BIC FreeFormula with 10-oh and 66 cm fin
around 16 knots / 20-40 kph either BTF or AHD 160 with 8.x using 48 cm fin
around 20 knots / 30-50 AHD 160 or BEE 124 with 7-oh using 40 cm fin
around 25 knots Fanatic BEE LTD 124 with 6.3 using 34 cm fin
over that - i'm dunn
i only use weed fins when absolutely necessary - NOT a big fan
so, what is my dream quiver ?? :-)
under 10 knots SB Phantom 377 with 8.4 or 10-oh/or in excellent condition Fanatic Mega CAT :-)
around 10 knots SB US or JP SLW92 with 10-oh and 8.4 in more wind
around 16 knots 135 free-race board with 8.4 => probably not required
Tabou Rocket 125 somewhere in here/JP Supersport 125 somewhere in here
around 20 knots 115 litre more manoeuverable board with 6.3 or 7-oh
around 25 knots 115 with 5.7 or 6.3
and be able to go in stronger winds and bigger chop/waves :-)
sometimes wish one had the cash to just try different boards and sell what does not work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how about analysis by board type
at this time - ready to invest in longboard - not really
ready to invest in Formula - NON
in mini-Formula = YES
in free-race = YES
so, without any testing, IF required i would be willing to save towards free-race and/or mini-Formula
am guessing the mini-Formula will beat out the longboard and one day i will end up with a wide, large board - like the JP SLW92 ....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
an element NOT to be overlooked are the current SKILLS !!
for example : i read on the Auzzie forum about heavyweights planing in 15 to 20 knot winds with a 6.5
in 15 knot winds i am with an 8.x and 6.3 towards the 20 knot point ...
all this to say - a quiver is useless without some skills
unfortunately last year winds were NOT great and i did NOT practice footstraps
i DID practice beachstarts and a little bit of waterstarts
to GET to the next level i MUST overcome my fear of footstraps and MASTER water starts
part of the problem is : it is difficult for a heavyweight to practice these things in light winds
the footstraps WILL be mastered on the BTF/BIC Techno Formula which is already used in lighter winds
the waterstarts need stronger winds or the sail is too large to master - Helmut suggests 7-oh and down
once i get IN the footstraps , water start anywhere and BLAST i hope to get a GPS
it seems the standard is the Locosys GT-31 which can be found on e-bay for about $150
another thing to start saving for - or is this really required ??
ideally could just use something that shows current speed - how about car Garmin in an aquabag ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
regarding the longboard and FreeFormula discussion:
I just re-read an article in the June 1999 edition of the Windsurfing Magazine. It was about the F2 380, the F2 Phoenix and the AHD 299. The F2 380 was classified as a full-length longboard, the F2 Phoenix 320 was classified as a transition longboard and the AHD 299 was classified as a wide shortboard. In today's world I would extrapolate this to the Starboard Phantom 377, SB Phantom 320 and the JP SLW92. In the article it was clear that under 8 mph the wide shortboard did NOT have a chance. The 380 was better than the 320 by about one or two mph. At about 10 mph they all did well and if there were no lulls, the wide short board was unbeatable.
So, as usual, it all comes down to wind speed and consistency.
Under 10 knots one should use a longboard and if into racing - a full-length 380 longboard.
If racing open class and wishing to save some money - transition 320 longboard.
Over 10 knots it becomes a personal choice where the wider shortboard will be faster.
Personally enjoy the speed and ride of my FreeFormula 94 cm wide board. As such, I do not see myself purchasing a modern longboard - nor even a modern hybrid.
If and when the BIC Techno Formula breaks down - the JP SLW92 will probably be the replacement board.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have picked up my MauiSails TR-6 8.4 and tested it on the water with the Fanatic Ultra CAT twice. Now the sail quiver is definitely complete. In terms of boards I am covered as well. Now all i need is some wind and the time to go out :-) As stated thus far it has mostly been light winds with the CAT and 8.4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are now in August 2013 and I can describe what has worked so far this year, what has not and the "events" of the year. First event was the MauiSails TR-4 10-oh head cap no longer retains the mast. The mast pops through the top. This is apparently a known problem and local sail shop can repair this for under $100. In the meantime the BTF and 10-oh combo is NOT being used :-(
The clip broke on the mast base of the FUC board {Fanatic Ultra CAT}. I was able to repair it with crazee glue - epoxy did NOT hold. Unfortunately this is now a weak point on the board and i am now reluctant to take this board far out into Lac de Deux Montagnes. I started analysing and looking at SB Phantom 320s and Kona ONEs. They are too much money. Mostly use the CAT on the local river - will use the Dufour next spring instead and keep the CAT in the country until replaced.
The MS2 8-oh now has broken battens that i tried to repair and in the end i removed the cambers on the sail. This works well on the CAT/longboards and the AHD 160 when choppy ie easier to uphaul than the TR-6 8.4. Also, the AHD has been going really well with 8.x and 7-oh ie i am enjoying that board.
Tried Sailboarder's KONA ONE - which planes well after about 12 knots, but does NOT glide as well as the FUC / CAT. Was also looking at a Phantom 320, butt not ready to spend $900 on board that needs repairs on the bottom ...
And so, i will continue with what i have, but replace the CAT with the Dufour when spring comes - for sailing on the local river, and get the TR-4 10-oh repaired.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now in OCT 2013 - Tried to fix the CAT and purchased a Mistral Equipe I LCS-XR. Could NOT see myself starting 2014 without a good longboard - nor ending 2013 with the BIC Dufour... Both the CAT and the Equipe are like a modern hybrid, but glide better than the KONA that I tested. I almost purchased a KONA and then considered selling almost everything to cover the cost. The fellow selling would not go for $1200 and now his price is even lower. Feels like we both lost out. In terms of the TR-6 8.4 sail, I do like it, but find with my skills - when winds are tough with some chop , i do not like having to uphaul this sail. I MUST learn to water start - especially the TR. The first experiments indicate that I must get a new life jacket that will sustain me up while water starting. Unfortunately the season is ending with few windsurf sessions -- September had four(4) sessions and this month only three(3) so far with the month half over... Helmut will be putting his stuff away soon and the mitts will be out with the next session surely.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) need a new life jacket for water starts and safety - purchased in 2014
2) really like and use a no cam 8-oh - mine is OLD - purchased in 2014
3) one day need to replace the 7-oh - purchased in 2014
4) the 10-oh needs a $100 repair - sail NOT used this year - found work-around in 2014